Alaska Airlines comments on my story

admin

Wanted to thank everyone for the vibrant discussion going on about my account of Flight #536’s depressurization/landing. I’ll try to keep the comments moderated as much as possible, to remove the ugly/dirty/off-topic ones. But bear with me–we’re getting bombarded right now.

In the meantime, it’s time to play a fun little game–it’s called ‘Guess Whose IP Address These Nasty Comments Originated From’ (I’ll give you a hint — it rhymes with Mawaska Bearlines):

While this maybe a private domain, please have the balls to post all comments. Not edit it to serve your own purpose as the public will read this site based on your comments to the media.

The truth is not always pleasant, but every one has a right to prove or disprove his comments. i.e. he’s not a licenced pilot, it’s jet-A not av gas, etc.

Ralph
Posted Dec 28, 11:45 AM

You pussy!

Leave up all of the post! Every one has a right to read and write about what they think of your experiance!

Ralph
Posted Dec 28, 11:17 AM

Jeremy

Did you edit some of the comments here on your board? Some of the comments seam to have gotten smaller in size and content? Hmm… Makes me wonder, do you not like all of the truth to come out?

Ralph
Posted Dec 28, 11:09 AM

The smell you encountered was probably the Oxegen genarators firing above your head when you pulled the mask down.

As for the phone issue. They have caused problems with the cargo fire detetectors in the past, causing them to indicate smoke/fire in the pits on some aircraft. This problem has somewhat been solved, but no one is 100% sure. There is still some concern that they can cause problems with older navigation systems.

Jet
Posted Dec 28, 10:58 AM

You come up with some very imaginative terms to describe the smell and what was happening. Can you explain to me, since when did jet liners start using AV gas? What was burning? YOu say and I quote “I knew something was terribly wrong. As the smell of acrid AV-gas and burning plastic filled the cabin”. Since the hole was far forward of the both the wings in which the fuel is stored and the engines for that matter, where did the smell of AV gas come from? No report of anything burnt was ever made, please explain the burning smell?

Do me one favore. I know you were involved in a terrible event, but don’t make more out of it than it was. Lieing about the smell of gas and burning anything in your blog only serves your own agenda.

john
Posted Dec 28, 7:58 AM

(PLEASE NOTE — I didn’t edit these in any way–the bad spelling is all them.)

Like I said–these just originated from an IP address registered to them according to my WordPress comment logs; I don’t know if they’re from actual Alaska employees, or maybe just hackers using Alaska’s IP address. But according to my server logs and a simple WHOIS lookup, they all came from an IP address registered to Alaska Airline, Inc..

Thanks again, Alaska. You guys are the best.

admin
admin

268 Comments

  1. Almost impossible these days that it’s hackers using an Alaska IP address. It’s possible to spoof IP addresses, but just very unlikely to be done casually.

    As far as deleting comments: it’s your bat and ball and ballpark. I can’t stand people who tell me that I have to post their comments on blogs or sites I run. My response? If you won’t be civil, fair, or reasonable, then start your own blog and link to mine and explain in your uncivil, unreasonable, and unfair way how I suck.

    My best to you. I can’t imagine living through what you did, and you’re handling it with aplomb.

    It freaks me out that I’m about to fly Alaska for the first time in about three years — their safety record started bugging me so I stopped flying them. However, because of this accident, I assume that there will be hypervigilance.

    I can’t wait for the Alaska execs, after paying the many millions of dollars out for this accident in legal fees and repair costs, rehires their regular baggage carriers and explains what a mistake it was to outsource.

  2. Where is the photo with the hole in the aeroship?!

  3. Steve–

    I think he was just trying to include ALL of the posts that came from Alaska.

    The issue is–if they are speaking on behalf of Alaska, they should say so. If they are not, then they should be wise enough to do so from non-Alaska IP addresses.

    Right now, these 5 comments are apparently the ONLY response that Alaska has to Mr. Hermanns experience. Does that make YOU want to fly Alaska anytime soon? To know that if you share your experience, you’ll have to defend yourself against a company rep (rather than be offered apologies galore)?

  4. Steve, Jeremy addresses most of the issues brought up in an update at the end of the original post.

    Personally, I’m wondering what Jeremy’s agenda is supposed to be.

  5. I HIGHLY doubt that any of the responses are from any Alaska rep, and should not be considered on behalf of the company. They’re simply comments being made by people who work for the airline. Not at all saying that it’s okay to do what they’re doing, just merely stating that these comments are probably being made by some nobody who works at a terminal all day.

  6. Oh, if these comments are from an 0fficial Alaska Airlines representative, I’ll bet he/she is no longer an Alaska Airlines representative.

    I’m quite certain they’re from company employees, quite possibly sitting at a terminal all day as you suggest.

    Unfortunately for them, posting comments from a company IP address is equivalent to saying them to a customer’s face while in uniform–and I’m hoping Alaska wouldn’t condone saying these sort of things to a customer who recently had the sort of experience that Jeremy did.

    Alaska–if you’re listening–do you have anything to say about all of this? Is this how you intend to treat anyone who publicly shares negative experiences they’ve had with your airline?

  7. Well, if it makes you feel any better, Alaska Airlines *is* the best of the American carriers…so at least you chose well.

  8. I’ve flown Alaska, and other airlines. I am also a GA pilot – PPSEL. And, I think blaming this accident on Alaska Airlines or the fact that they have non-unionized employees is unfair.

    If the decompression was caused by damage from a baggage handler, then it’s the baggage handler’s fault… not the airline’s. Surely Alaska has a policy that requires any airplane damage be reported immediately to the pilot/flight crew AND the airline’s airport maintenance department. Why are you going to blame the airline for an employee that did not follow the policy?

    I don’t work for Alaska Airlines, but I do live in the Seattle area. And, I agree with some (not all) of the other postings. This is not Alaska’s fault.

  9. My point was that he groups “Jet’s” comment in with “‘Guess Whose IP Address These Nasty Comments Originated From’”. This gives the implication that he considers what was, IMO, and informative and polite post in with the rest of the chaff. At best, that’s poor writing.

    Finally, the comment:

    The issue is–if they are speaking on behalf of Alaska, they should say so. If they are not, then they should be wise enough to do so from non-Alaska IP addresses.
    is quite interesting. I guess that if a knowledgeble Alaska Air employee has somehting to say, then he should only do so anonymously, because if he identifies himself as an employee, he risks termination (as all of us do as employees of our respective companies), and if he doesn’t, but posts from an Alaska Air computer, he risks being exposed by someone with an axe to grind, evn though his post may be informative.

    What I’m getting at is even though, to my eye, Jet did nothing wrong here, he may be fired because of Jeremy’s (hopefully) thoughtlessness. So much for blogging building a community.

  10. Note, in my last message, for some reason the “blockquote” tag didn’t close properly, I don’t know why. Read with caution, please.

  11. I really, really hope that the person in charge of the “Oxegen genarators” is someone who spells at at least a 3rd grade level.

  12. The fact that the comments come from Alaska Airline’s IP space means very little. I have a feeling that, if they get enough flak for this post from customers, they will look for the culprit. It could be someone hacking into the system – that’s certainly one way to do this. It could be a bored or disgruntled employee. It could be an ex-employee who was never properly removed from the system. It could be one of the union baggage handlers – trying to make Alaska Airline look bad… there are enough variations to fill an entire blog page.

    People who run companies generally do not want to incur extra bad press, especially after an incident such as you were involved in with the decompression. I think you should copy and paste the comments and the IP address you are receiving them from and email them to Alaska Airlines along with a link to your blog story and a note that it has been linked by Instapundit.

    See if you can get a response from them.

  13. Steve,

    I would be more suspect of “Jet’s” thoughtlessness. As an employee (if that is what he is) of Alaska, he/she should know better than to post on an issue regarding the company he/she works for from the company’s own network. I have absolutely no problem with Jeremy “outing” the servers these posts came from.

    I’m more concerned with the fact that Alaska is mysteriously silent while allowing employees to make statements on its behalf. They must be aware of what’s on this site by now if they have any kind of PR dept. Regardless of whether they sanctioned these comments or not, the fact remains that the comments originated from their network which ultimately makes them responsible for their content.

  14. “My point was that he groups “Jet’s” comment in with “‘Guess Whose IP Address These Nasty Comments Originated From’”. This gives the implication that he considers what was, IMO, and informative and polite post in with the rest of the chaff.”

    The “chaff”, here, is a concept which includes people posting from an AA address. That concept doesn’t have anything to do with how “informative” or “polite” they are. The point of referring to this concept of people posting from an AA address is that they’re being irresponsible with the company’s authority. If they were posting from their own addresses and leaving the company out of it, this would not be an issue.

    It’s not about how “informative” or “polite” they are.

  15. I don’t think the implication by Jeremy is that this whole incident (what happened to the plane) is Alaska’s fault. Jeremy’s merely sharing his experience.

    The immediate assumption may be that Alaska’s to blame–and certainly Jeremy can’t clarify or deny that. But I don’t see anywhere in his posts that he tries to.

    All he’s done is share his experience people. What ever inferences you want to draw, that’s your deal.

    But he certainly owes no obligation to NOT discuss this–and if Alaska were SO concerned about anyone talking about what happened on Flight 536, they should have offered all of the passengers some sort of deal to not discuss this event publicly.

    But Alaska or Alaska employees responding this way is ridiculous.

    STEVE: Your argument makes no sense.

    Jet’s comments were posted verbatim from what is freely and clearly available on the previous post.

    And we all agree–they are informative. Which is, in fact, the one thing that makes me SLIGHTLY respect Alaska’s response to this event and Jeremy’s post.

    Jeremy did Jet and Alaska a service, by not concealing the positive things that were contributed to the discussion from their IP address.

    Of course, if Jet could spell ‘oxygen’, it probably would have been a slightly bigger win for AA.

  16. Phil,

    I’m sorry, thoughtless on “Jet’s” part or not, other than the fact that he posted from Alaska’s network, is there anything substantive that groups him with the other two? How does his being an Alaska employee (or possibly, sontractor), matter? He wasn’t rude, and I can find no disagreement anywhere on Jeremy’s part discounting what he (Jet) says. So, once again, why group him with the other (obviously rude) two, other than thoughtlessness or plain vindictiveness?

  17. I was a passenger on that flight. I don’t think the events were quite as dramatic as has been reported. The first thing I noticed was a loud “POP”, not deafening, but loud enough to get your attention. Then there was a constant noise that sounded like a window had been opened. The oxygen masks didn’t deploy immediately. It was at least 45 seconds to a minute before they suddenly popped out. That’s a pretty frightening moment when the oxygen masks deploy. About this time, the plane was also turning around. It was obvious that was what was happening.

    I didn’t sense panic from people. None of the adults screamed or cried that I saw. Everyone did look at one another with nervousness though. One parent in front of me was screaming at his young child because the scared child didn’t want to put on the mask. I think the child who was probably about 5 was scared because the parents looked scared, and I’m sure the child sensed it. The child did cry the rest of the flight.

    The most unsettling thing was we didn’t know what was happening for at least a couple of minutes. It might have been more assuring if the pilot had said something sooner, but I’m sure he was busy. Still, we were anxious for some information. Finally, after we had been using the oxygen masks for a few minutes, the pilot made an announcement that we were returning to the airport.

    I did smell something funny. It didn’t really smell like burning, but there was a noticeable odor. Someone said it might have been the oxygen tanks.

    The flight attendants did an outstanding job. They remained calm, and helped passengers with their masks. I could sense a little nervousness in them, but they did their job, and tried to assure us that we would have a normal landing. It was comforting to hear that, though I think we were all cautiously optimistic.

    The landing itself was pretty uneventful, thankfully.

    I’ll say this. It makes me want to listen more carefully at the beginning of the flights when the flight attendants review the emergency procedures. The oxygen masks seem to take a few moments to actually get going. For about 10 or 15 seconds, I wasn’t sure if it was working. Then finally you notice the bag start to expand. That’s a happy moment when you see that.

    By the way, it’s two days later, and I just learned about the hole in the plane. I sure am glad I didn’t know about the hole when we were in the air.

  18. About 20 years ago my girlfriend and I were on a plane that “landed” so hard the stewardess started crying. I empathize with Jeremy. Can’t believe the negativity on some of these posts.

  19. Pete Zaitcev Reply to Pete

    If Alaska’s brass ever catches Ralph, he’s in deep trouble. In most real companies, commenting on issues of such import is reserved for authorized representatives only. I am not excluding a possiblity that Alaska’s IT department is tralling through firewall or proxy logs right now, in order to identify the internal user.

  20. Hi Jeremy,

    Thanks for the pics and stoy about this incident. Sad to hear that the Bearlines dudes are dogging ya. Keep your chin up. Don’t forget it’s your site, post what you want and don’t worry about it.

    Did you see or have you seen a pic of the hole in the plane? Wonder if the official story is true…

    In any case, it’s good that you all made down safely.

    Best regards.

    JB

  21. Kevin’s comments are right. The smell was the O2 generators providing O2, so the smell is a good thing. The air in the aircraft was going out of the aircraft not coming in, so the smells did not come from the outside of the aircraft. Any smell would be what is inside the cabin already.

    The O2 masks will take some time to deploy because the pressure in the cabin has to reach 14,000′ before they will deploy. The bags attached to the O2 mask may not inflate even though O2 is flowing so you can’t go by the bag inflating or not.

    Regarding information from the pilots, you don’t want to here from them right then. They have a job to do and would be very busy. That is why Flight Attendants are there to help.

    Sounds like everything worked as planned in these cases. You can’t blame Alaska for something a contractor did or didn’t do. Virtually every airline now is using contract baggage handlers. It is the contractor and their employee who will be held responsible.

  22. RE to: You come up with some very imaginative terms to describe the smell and what was happening. Can you explain to me, since when did jet liners start using AV gas? What was burning? YOu say and I quote “I knew something was terribly wrong. As the smell of acrid AV-gas and burning plastic filled the cabin”. Since the hole was far forward of the both the wings in which the fuel is stored and the engines for that matter, where did the smell of AV gas come from? No report of anything burnt was ever made, please explain the burning smell?

    Do me one favore. I know you were involved in a terrible event, but don’t make more out of it than it was. Lieing about the smell of gas and burning anything in your blog only serves your own agenda.

    john
    Posted Dec 28, 7:58 AM
    ________________________________

    The writer of the above post should have run a spell and grammar check. What a retard. Favor. Lieing – HAHA.

    And, I must say, if anyone doesn’t like what they are reading in your blog, it is not hard to just STOP READING. People take things too seriously.

  23. Based on the spelling errors, I would suggest that all of those comments were written by the same person.

  24. Jeremy,

    Don’t let people, especially anonymous people, criticize your choice to modify, delete or edit posts or comments. This is your blog. Some business blogs, like the Nike Art of Speed blog, disable comments so that snarky people don’t impede the Nike message. I modify my business blogs or comments as I see fit.
    Good Luck,

    Ed Hill
    Atlanta PR guy

  25. Jeremy, I’d just like to say that I’m happy that you and your fiance are safe, actually all who were on that plane. And for all the times I’ve seen it happen, it still startles me when I see unwarranted attacks such as those on you today. I’m thinking world peace is a long way off judging from this.

  26. I don’t give a rat’s ass what the smell was and if Jeremy got it wrong then I’d hardly describe the circumstances as ideal for verifying facts. None of which is the point.

    The man and his fiancée had a terrifying experience and he chose to share it with the world. It makes for riveting reading – which cannot be said of some of the unnecessarily snarky ccomments. It exposes an issue – that generates debate aobut air safety. Is that such a bad thing?

    Your site, your Internet real-estate Jeremy – you tell it as you see it and excise the crapola this type of thing always seems to attract.

  27. Glad to hear you were so scared you remembered to put your Treo in airline safe mode and snap pics! There are more important things going on in the world

  28. I agree with Dennis. No matter how you slice it the experience must have been terrifying. Tonight I was riding the subway in NYC, our train was having mechanical problems or something, and it slowed to a halt in between stations. We were idle for about 10 minutes, with no announcements, and most of the passengers seemed as stressed out as I was. Finally the darn thing started up again, and arrived at the station. I can’t even imagine what it would be like on a plane, hearing a pop, and then having the oxygen masks come down. No matter how under control the situation seems, the plane still has to land.

  29. The bizarre thing is that nothing in your original post was especially critical of Alaska Airlines, apart from (arguably) the “non-union baggage handler” remark. And it’s hard to imagine most of their rank and file employees taking issue with that one. It’s true that you included details that were probably wrong – that’s an inherent feature of first person accounts of traumatic events – but we got the gist of what happened. I’d be curious about the job titles of the AA employees who commented, especially Ralph (my guess is they’re all desk jockeys except possibly Jet, whose post I found reasonable).

    How did you like the Katana?

  30. Stef, Jer's Sister Reply to Stef,

    Trust me, Ive grown up with this guy forever, never have I seen that look on his face than the look with his oxygen mask on (I hope I spelled that right, Im a damn teacher). He should be exposing this and he has every reason to be following this through. Knowledge is power. My bro is empowering. Im proud of you and so happy you and Erika are ok.

  31. The author strictly stated the facts. It is worthy to note that multiple comments critical of his account are proven to have come from Alaska Airlines registered IP space.

    And in answer to an earlier question, the HTTP protocol is connection-based and requires a 3-way TCP handshake between two IPs.

    IP spoofing is generally performed by UDP attacks, or denial-of-service (SYN) attacks.

    The only options here are:

    1. ARIN is incorrectly reporting the IP space as Alaska Airlines (HIGHLY unlikely)

    2. A device in Alaska Airline’s IP space has been compromised and is under the control of a hacker who happened to be following this blog (very unlikely)

    3. The president of Alaska Airlines is enraged and lashing out on the Internet rather than consulting with his legal and public relations expert (you never know, but very unlikely)

    4. A group of employees at Alaska Airlines is going to get their butt’s spanked for embarassing their company by posting on a blog about a serious issue relating to the company (DING DING DING)

    5. Alaska Airlines will hire me to run their IT Security and compliance program for a large some of money and free air travel. (HIGHLY unlikely 🙂

  32. Hey Jeremy, your pictures and video made it all the way here to Australia (slow news week!) but I grabbed the URL from the pics (nice touch) and went to your site.

    Glad you’re ok!

    Andrew – from Sydney Australia.

  33. The negative comments are bothering me less than the thought of line employees with extreme difficulties managing the English language.
    I’m gonna be up in an -83 with Bearlaska in the morning. Boys will be boys; but if the nasty-comment employees can’t write, how will they be able to recognize a faulty Fetzer-valve.
    Fetzer valve repair is important; it requires prep with gauze, some 3 in 1 oil and a hefty load of ball bearings.
    Still the whole thing makes me just a tad ruffled. If Chevy is out there, tell ‘im John Cocktoastin said Hi.

    Wade (Fletch)

  34. TRACKBACK: Jeremy Hermanns, der für die Werbeagentur Tribal DDB in Los Angeles arbeitet und das Weblog Blogebrity mitgegründet hat, war nach den Feiertagen auf dem Flug #536 der Alaska Airlines von Seattle nach Burbank in Kalifornien. Wegen eines Druckabfalls …

  35. I gotta agree with the AA employee. Dude to be honest after reading your story about what happened you do kinda sound like a pu**y. Sorry but It’s just the truth. If your a piolt you know that a decompression ain’t gonna bring down the plane that easy so why were you so scared? One of the posters above mentioned that an average passenger might be afraid but you have a clue so WTF? Quit you crying and grow some balls!

  36. The smell that you were smelling was the oxegen generators when you pull on the mask it activates the generators and they get extremly hot just to clear things up

  37. Paul In KY Reply to Paul

    To clear up a few mis-conceptions, please do NOT refer to Alaska Airlines as AA, which was used by American Airlines long before Alaska Airlines ever got off the ground. (No pun intended) If you don’t belive me, ask IATA. Secondly, the “burning smell” as described, was most likely the chief chemical component in O2 generators, which is known as Lithium Perchlorate, which produces oxygen when burning. Thirdly and arguably most importantly, before de-bunking one’s comments in an incident like this, bear in mind one important fact. In an incident like this, no two people will give the same exact account of what happened.

  38. I just heard a loud “pop”. Looks like someone just rammed a cart into the side of the Alaskan Airlines PR department.

    Emergency… explosive decompression… loosing altitude fast… assume the crash position! Anybody want some peanuts?

  39. Ok, here’s a clue folks. “Smells like” doesn’t mean “There is”. Cyanide smeels like almonds, doesn’t mean that there are almonds in cyanogenic compounds. Copperhead snakes are said to smell like cucumbers, doesn’t mean that they had a ladyfinger before taking a nip at your heels. Smells like burning AVGas? Hrmm, maybe that means… it smells like burning AVGas. Doesn’t mean it’s THERE, means it SMELLS like it. AVGas to me always smelled like old wet garbage, though that may have just been the tank of the Cessna and whatever crud was in there when I checked for water. Anyhow, some of you are just being spiteful for the sake of spite. Grow up.

  40. Every one has a right to read and write about what they think of your experiance!

    Ralphie might think differently if someone else were to write what they think of him on the outside of his house. What a nimrod.

  41. i’m glad you’re safe, jeremy, and telling this tale. frankly i’m surprised at how reactionary some of the negative comments have been, especially the ones quick to jump to the company’s defense and ad hominem attacks on you.

    blogs are quickly changing just what a company like alaska airlines can and cannot cover up. i hope you get some kind of a response and post it.

  42. I’ve never really read a blog before, and now that I have, all I can say is: “What a bunch of NERDS. Get a life…all a yas. Step away from the computer, and go do something useful instead of name call on a blog. Talk about a YAWN. Wow, it’s so brave to throw stones when you’re anonymous. BORING.”

  43. I just wanted to say, thanks for posting your story. I have and never will fly as my husband works at the airport in our city. He has seen things like drunk pilots, broke planes still flying, etc. You get the point. Dont let these People… bother you. I am happy you had the balls to tell the true story of what happened. And as another email stated and I quote ” its so brave to throw stones when your anonymous”. Have a great day!!!

  44. Just a quick reaction to the comment below by John on 12.28.05 2:58 pm :

    “If the decompression was caused by damage from a baggage handler, then it’s the baggage handler’s fault… not the airline’s. Surely Alaska has a policy that requires any airplane damage be reported immediately to the pilot/flight crew AND the airline’s airport maintenance department. Why are you going to blame the airline for an employee that did not follow the policy?”

    Sorry to say, but if an employee doesn’t report the incident, the employer is still liable. The fact that the employee didn’t report just means that he personally also gets his ass fired. Think about it: otherwise, where’s the company’s incentive to implement a reporting policy in the first place? Mind as well throw your hands up and watch expendable employees get sued, right? Other than that, I agree that the unionized/non-unionized debate has nothing to do with anything.

    As an aside, e-mailing inflammatory comments from an Alaskan Airlines IP address (i.e. while at work) could probably get those jerkoffs fired, too (and I hope that’s the case). I’ve never flown Alaskan, but this whole incident has given me a pretty dim view of ’em. I hope all the reasonably folks who have read the blog take the same view and flex their consumer muscles.

    Best of luck to you Jeremy; keep the blogs coming. E.

  45. I’ve had several scary experiences on alaska airlines before, and they seem to be late 100% of the time. Even though they “gave” me 2 free flight vouchers for a 2 hour flight that was delayed due to TWO mechanical malfunctions for 9 hours, i wouldn’t step onto one of their airplanes again.

    The smell of jet fuel in the cabin durring takeoff is really reasuring when you fly on a cutrate airline like alaska

  46. The above comments from nospam and gaijin echo my thoughts. Good writing.

    I am happy Jeremy wrote his story and has provided entertainment for all.

    I hope the people who posted grinch comments (from the airline and also others) can find something to be happy about today – and will similarly take the time to comment in an encouraging fashion.

  47. Jeremy,

    This is hilarious! I’m ROFL. (Not what happened, but that someone from Alaska Airlines was commenting like that and you’re calling them out on it.) Nice, I like your style.

    I don’t know why some people are ignorant to the fact that we (as bloggers) are checking the IP addresses of commenters and visitors to our blogs. We CAN see you.

    From the PR side, if Alaska Airlines doesn’t already have their PR people on this, they should be fired. If I was their PR person, I would be on your blog immediately commenting with what happened to the employee(s) that did this and apologizing. Perhaps they are just another Kryptonite and don’t even know what’s going on…

  48. I am an airline pilot for a major US carrier and I do a podcast about airline life called “Fly With Me”. I would like to interview you (Skype?) about this incident for my podcast. You could have a listen to the podcast to see what its tone is like. Mostly, I’m interested in your personal experience, and I would avoid the more inflamatory political side of the story. Email me if you are interested. Also, I prefer not to say what airline I work for, so please use discretion. Thanks, — Joe

  49. Steve Beshakus Reply to Steve

    This is the first, last, and only blog entry of my life. Anyone who blogs or jumps into a discussion forum needs to get a life… you have way too much time on your hand. Get a job. Play with your kids. Get some exercise. Read a book. Talk to your spouse. Do something other than read what others have to say… who really cares?

    Out.

    Steve

  50. John Raddison Reply to John

    Hey man, could be a lot worse. Remember Alaska Airlines Flight 261? I was in the air that day, en route to SFO. Got to the hotel and flipped on CNN to see that 88 people had plunged to their demise.

    Now, it’s hard to imagine what you went through, but man, it’s impossible to comprehend what these poor souls endured.

    Way to go, Alaska Airlines. I suppose it was a migrant worker who last performed maintenance on 261’s gimbal nut and jackscrew, too.

    Hey Alaska Air, BITE ME!!!

    Best of luck, Jeremy, on your future flights.

  51. Jeremy,
    Citizen journalism at its finest. You have every right to report what you saw, heard, smelled and felt on that plane. I’m sure Alaska is pissed about the bad PR, but hey Alaska, how about you don’t nearly crash your planes in the future and then your passengers won’t have to discuss the horrifying experience you put them through?
    Keep up the good work Jeremy. Don’t let some big corporation scare you so they can protect their image.

  52. It will probably only be a few days from now when our government will arrest anyone taking photos in an airplane…and, as is the norm for 2005, everyone will bend over and say “yes…no more 9.11’s, I feel so much safer now that the air marshalls can shoot under non-threatening circumstances and can arrest me for taking photos.”

  53. I was very sorry to read that you had not edited the comments of these jerks. They really are that ridiculous. I happened to come across your link in a story in usatoday.com and was curious. Once again I am reminded of how utterly stupid the majority of the public really is. Anyone who gets that upset about some camera phone photo some guy posted on the internet must have some serious issues. Get a life! All that aside, glad you and your fellow passengers made it to the ground safely. And, you might ought to stay on top of those airline employees who have been contacting you. They need to remember that their egos might be bruised, but you could have lost you life because of one of their mistakes. Good luck!

  54. El Navajo Reply to El

    That non-union worker aka Rats, proberly didn’t get a Christmas bonus this year. Got mad and “accidently” ran into the jet.
    Thats my assumption.

  55. Can you all just please shut the fuck up! This is stupid!

  56. I really don’t get the snarkiness or calling you names. What’s wrong with people? I seriously think that it’s the union comment that did it. They’re not usually know for being reasonable about anything.

  57. Enjoyed the post, and I’m glad you and your fiancee made it down safely. As others have said, ignore the trolls–the whole thing about never criticizing a man until you’ve walked (or flown, in this case) a mile in his shoes is appopriate here.

  58. So Jeremy is an editing little PUNK

    You say you don’t edit posts but you sure as hell DELETE them don’t you.

    Where is this one??

    Hey man, could be a lot worse. Remember Alaska Airlines Flight 261? I was in the air that day, en route to SFO. Got to the hotel and flipped on CNN to see that 88 people had plunged to their demise.

    Now, it’s hard to imagine what you went through, but man, it’s impossible to comprehend what these poor souls endured.

    Way to go, Alaska Airlines. I suppose it was a migrant worker who last performed maintenance on 261’s gimbal nut and jackscrew, too.

  59. hi jeremy,

    good to hear you and your fiance are ok. it sounds like you were privy to a pretty freaky experience. it was informative to read a first hand account of something like this.

    my 2 cents are that i think some baggage schmoe screwed up and will get fired, alaska better get a better grip on their employees and teach them how to spell, and steve beshakus is an idiot for using the term “Out” as a farewell.

    cheers,
    chris

  60. “Someone” wrote: Way to go, Alaska Airlines. I suppose it was a migrant worker who last performed maintenance on 261’s gimbal nut and jackscrew, too.
    Actually, no, that wasn’t the problem with the jackscrew on AA261. The problem there was that nobody performed maintenance on it – they just kept filing for extensions without even inspecting the damned thing.

  61. hey jeremy,
    i was really interested to see your photographs (yes a am more worried about flying now!) but the most important thing is you made it down alive mate :-). its pretty pointless them posting insults, they are just giving the company a bad name. but who cares what they say, you are alive and you got dugg, TWICE!

    Well done mate, glad you are here to tell your story

    Dooba

  62. wonderful follow up. alaska airlines is apparently very sensitive to, and very aware of, critisism

  63. And they called “you” a pussy ? What a crock of crap ! If you ask me they’re the sell-out pussies ! Having the balls to have the word Alaska on the side of their planes and business, while corporate is based in Seattle ! Look on their corporate contact info and all phone numbers are (206) and not (907).

    They couldn’t hack it in the real AK so they fly in and out of Seattle, pretending to be Alaskans.

    I say the next flight with Ralph on it in AK airspace should be escorted promptly back to Seattle by a couple of F-15s launched from Elmendorf – that would make a great live-fire training exercise, wouldn’t it Ralph ? Pussy.

  64. Just strange I hve never been on a plane when somthing like this happens, not sure I would go about it the same way.

  65. Just to clean things up a bit here, a lot of folks are referring to Alaska Air as AA. No – that’s American Airlines.

    The code for Alaska Air is AS.

  66. And after I posted that, I immediately found that someone had said it already. Argh.

  67. stephen hawking Reply to stephen

    I need to tell you a little about how Alaskan Airlines’s epithets are enmeshed in emotionalism. And so I shall. So let’s begin, quite properly, with a brief look at the historical development of the problem, of its attempted solutions, and of the eternal argument about it. Alaskan Airlines hates it when you say that if it is allowed to make our country spiritually blind, the implications can be widespread. It really hates it when you say that. Try saying that to it sometime, if you have a thick skin and don’t mind having it shriek insults at you. Today, we might have let Alaskan Airlines open the floodgates of gnosticism. Tomorrow, we won’t. Instead, we will create greater public understanding of the damage caused by Alaskan Airlines’s prevarications.

    I never cease to be amazed at the way that I shall not argue that Alaskan Airlines’s newsgroup postings are an authentic map of its plan to use every conceivable form of diplomacy, deception, pressure, coercion, bribery, treason, and terror to rally for a cause that is completely void of moral, ethical, or legal validity. Read them and see for yourself. Nobody ever went broke underestimating Alaskan Airlines’s intelligence. It is also worthy of note that even if one isn’t completely conversant with current events, the evidence overwhelmingly indicates that if I had to choose the most libidinous specimen from Alaskan Airlines’s welter of cankered gabble, it would have to be Alaskan Airlines’s claim that the majority of dishonest hooligans are heroes, if not saints. Imagine, as it is not hard to do, that I honestly reject Alaskan Airlines’s demands. It then follows that it sometimes uses the word “pathologicohistological” when describing its belief systems. Beware! This is a buzzword designed for emotional response.

    Alaskan Airlines’s methods are much subtler now than ever before. Alaskan Airlines is more adept at hidden mind control and its techniques of social brainwash are much more appealingly streamlined and homogenized. Alaskan Airlines’s policies are geared toward the continuation of social stratification under the rubric of “tradition”. Funny, that was the same term that its followers once used to respond to this letter with hyperbolic and uncorroborated accusations and assaults on free speech. Alaskan Airlines hates people who have huge supplies of the things it lacks. What it lacks the most is common sense, which underlies my point that people often get the impression that aberrent, stuck-up nincompoops and Alaskan Airlines’s collaborators are separate entities. Not so. When one catches cold, the other sneezes. As proof, note that if you’ve never seen Alaskan Airlines cause an increase in disease, vandalism, crime, and vice, you’re either incredibly unobservant or are concealing the truth from yourself. The funny thing is, certain facts are clear. For instance, Alaskan Airlines spews nothing but lame retorts and innuendoes. Get that straight, please. Any other thinking is blame-shoving or responsibility-dodging. Furthermore, if anything will free us from the shackles of Alaskan Airlines’s inarticulate memoranda, it’s knowledge of the world as it really is. It’s knowledge that whenever it is blamed for conspiring to trick us into trading freedom for serfdom, it blames its peons. Doing so reinforces their passivity and obedience and increases their guilt, shame, terror, and conformity, thereby making them far more willing to help Alaskan Airlines carve out space in the mainstream for high-handed, irresponsible politics. I hate to say this, but I want to live my life as I see fit. I can’t do that while Alaskan Airlines still has the ability to tour the country promoting lackluster Lysenkoism in lectures and radio talk show interviews.

    It’s not the boogeyman that our children need to worry about. It’s Alaskan Airlines. Not only is Alaskan Airlines more vile and more untrustworthy than any envisaged boogeyman or bugbear, but Alaskan Airlines always sounds like it’s reading a prepared speech. So let Alaskan Airlines call me smarmy. I call it headstrong. Alaskan Airlines, you are welcome to get off my back this time and stay off.

    At the same time, I’m not a psychiatrist. Sometimes, though, I wish I were, so that I could better understand what makes organizations like Alaskan Airlines want to encourage people to leave their spouses, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become scabrous manipulators of the public mind. Furthermore, Alaskan Airlines insists that doing the fashionable thing is more important than life or liberty. This fraud, this lie, is just one among the thousands they perpetrates. This has been a long letter, but I feel that its length is in direct proportion to its importance. Why? Because it is of paramount importance not to let Alaskan Airlines’s toadies force me to put myself in harm’s way.

  68. Carol wrote: “I just wanted to say, thanks for posting your story. I have and never will fly as my husband works at the airport in our city. He has seen things like drunk pilots, broke planes still flying, etc. You get the point”

    sooo, I take it you don’t drive, either. There are drunks and broken down cars on the road. Ask any police officer to tell you horror stories of driving.

  69. This happens alot. Say “bad things” about a company or have something a group or organization does not like and you are going to get e-mail like crazy from them.

  70. I work for Alaska Airlines. Jeremy, I see nothing wrong with you sharing your experience in this blog. I’m sure that there are great and not-so-great employees working for Menzies, as with any company. (It was a Menzies Aviation employee who hit the plane.) Obviously it is in the best interest of Alaska Airlines to make safety our top priority. I’m not worried about flying Alaska or any airline for that matter. You are more likely to be in a car accident than an airplane accident. I’m glad you landed safely and I hope your next flight is smoother!

  71. Jeremy, your dramatization of an unfortunate but not isolated incident that was handled as per SOPs by the professional aircrew, flight and cabin, might impress the uninitiated but not with the aviation enlightened. There is no way you could have smelt Av gas or JP4. Commercial jet airplanes use JP1, which admittedly smells the same as JP4 which is used in naval aviation. I have 20,000hrs + flying various commercial jet transports from CV880 to B747. I would also suggest that you take some notice of the safety demo next time you fly and you won’t have any problems with the use of the oxygen mask. Cheers, Adam.

  72. In my experience most airline personnel are arrogant, self-riteous assholes. I’ve got a good friend who is a pilot for a major and he is no exception. Through him I’ve met quite a few people from several airlines, and they pretty much all qualify.

    They love to tell stories about how stupid the “fares” are, and they tend to be irrationally defensive about an industry that is notoriously bad at managing itself.

    That being said, most people make a much bigger deal out of relatively minor mishaps that occur in the air, mainly because they are so thankfully infrequent and because most people don’t understand adverse event(s) and the complex, redundant safety systems that are built into the equipment and procedures to deal with them.

    In general if nobody died or got hurt it is not a big deal.

    The most dangerous part of any flight is still the car ride to the airport.

  73. Wow those people are losers.

    I wouldn’t be too surprised if it was some bitter pilots or high level up manager under stress posting those comments.

    Losers.

  74. Dude .. I’m glad that you took and posted pictures. I think it was a breave thing to do. And after seeing how the Airline (that rhymes with Mawaska Bearlines) is acting .. i feel more strongly for you.

    I am never flying Amiercan Airlines again .. thanks for this great post .. and great pictures. They are bashing you for technical terms .. AV gas .. and that gas and this fule engine .. dude .. ur not an Aeronotical Engineer .. that’s all they could bash you about.

    I bet the oxygen masks didn’t work or didn’t give the right level of Oxygen .. American Airline suckssssssssss

  75. I’m not surprised that Alaska airlines would pull this kind of stunt.

    This is the same company that had a perfectly good airplane fall into the ocean off Los Angeles in the middle of the day in perfectly clear skies, killing everyone, because they delayed maintenance on a crucial component.

    I decided when I heard about that incident in 2000 that I would never fly on any aircraft operated by Alaska again.

    Its one thing to have a unforseen mechanical failure and even pilot error in bad weather. But, failing to maintain a crucial component is irresponsible in the same way that allowing a plane to take off is after a collission without conducting a thorough investigation.

    Earlier this year, Alaska had an engine burst into flames simply because it was turned on while the plane was sitting on the ground at a Canadian airport. If that had happened while the plan was in the air, who knows what would have happened.

    I guess this is just their way of saying “Happy Holidays.”

    What assholes.

    You can read more about Southwest’s actions at

    http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/alaska.htm

    P.S. Southwest and America West have never lost a single passenger, although Southwest did kill a child sitting in a car within the last two weeks.

  76. Please replace Southwest with Alaska in the third to last paragraph of my post.

  77. I had not heard of your original story until I saw this post on Digg. I am happy all turned out ok for you from the incident. I am also a blogger and I applaud your telling this story. I am not surprized however by the reaction to some of the childish with your story. I have (as I am sure you have) seen many businesses try and toss their weight around as they did the old days. The fail to understand the power of the blogging world and they almost always pay for it in the end.
    I don’t know if it is Alaskan Airlines doing this to you or some other fan boy, but the one thing I would do for sure is continue to drag them through the hot burning coals.
    If it had been me, I would not have sued the company over the incident. To each their own, but I would not have done it. But based on their reactions to the blog or their unofficial fan boy collection, I would revise my intent and rip them apart there as well.
    Good luck with whatever your future holds and continue to teach Corporate Public Relations types that the world has changed. Screw the networks, who cares about the AP or the UP. Blogs are the real news. The stories we cover today are the stories that the Washington Post and New York Times carries next week.

  78. Its been Dugg! Thanx alot for opening my eyes, yes you alaska airlines since the Ips have been trace routed back to you I hope your company goes down the toilet you should be ashamed.

  79. Regardless of where these comments came from, noone can dispute that they are rude. Not everyone is an airframe expert nor knows the different smells of aviation and jet fuel. I bet every passenger would describe the same experience very differently, thats human nature. I think the alaska airlines crew was shown in a very flattering light. I have no data to back this up but I am sure they are not the only ones to outsource their baggage handling. I think everyone just needs to calm down.

  80. Osama bin Laden Reply to Osama

    javascript:{invoke(worldwide.disaster.jsp});

  81. Martin, Alaskan did not know that the loader collided with the fuselage because the baggage handler failed to report it. At this stage the damage had not developed into a tear so the crew had no way of knowing before takeoff. You state ” Earlier this year, Alaska had an engine burst into flames simply because it was turned on while the plane was sitting on the ground at a Canadian airport”. Where else would you start an engine other than on the ground? “If that had happened while the plan (sic) was in the air, who knows what would have happened.” The crew would have carried out an engine fire drill, shut the engine down, extingush the fire and do a single engine approach and landing at the nearest suitable airport. End of story. Flight crew are trained to handle all emergencies, the majority of which have a successful outcome like the loss of cabin pressure on Alaskan 536.
    ,

  82. If these nasty comments are coming from an IP owned by Alaska, I’m not entirely surprised. The general public still click through when they get spam or phishing emails; they probably have no idea that their IPs can be traced.

  83. Hey now. Let’s not shorten it to Alaska. Alaska Airlines plz. You are giving my state a bad name.

  84. Adam,

    Alaska Air may not have known about this incident before it happened, but is has known that its baggage handlers have consistently been hitting its airplanes this year, and Alaska Air has repeatedly failed to report those hits to appropriate authorities.

    You can’t claim ignorance to a specific event when you know about a pattern of the same event, do nothing to stop it, and then hide the evidence from authorities.

    This would be like a taxi company hiring drunk mechanics, finding out, doing nothing about the drunk mechanics, and then claiming that they didn’t know that this particular mechanic was drunk on a certain date.

    See the following article for more details:

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/253980_alaska30.html

    “An Alaska Airline report filed a month ago showed that the airline had 13 ramp incidents that led to aircraft damage from January to November.

    “The airline was responding to a KING/5 report revealing that Alaska had not been reporting most ramp incidents to airport authorities and that the problems have escalated — 72 in the first nine months of the year compared with 15 last year.

    “Through mid-September, Alaska Airlines and Menzies had been cited with 13 separate ramp violations, most involving speeding and reckless driving, according to port records.”

  85. I don’t understand where half of the people that have commented on this topic are coming from. I better flat out tell you that I work for AS (Alaska Airlines, not AA, btw) because it’s apparently wrong to omit that fact and speak your mind as a regular human being. Though I may disagree with the way “Ralph” handled the situation, the fact of the matter is that he is a person just like you and I and happened to make the mistake of commenting at an AS terminal. Honestly, what normal blogger goes through his logs, searching for IP addresses and converts them to domain names? I can only imagine the grin on Jeremy’s face after he struck that gold :|. I suppose that’s beside the point. All I’m getting at is that people make such a big deal over the fact that this “came from Alaska Airlines, omg.” This statement did not come from Alaska. Ralph was not “representing” my company. Obviously Alaska Airlines isn’t about to call a passenger names after an event like this. It came from another person, a person that sits at an airport all day and has no say over what “Alaska Airlines,” as a company, wants to portray as public relations image. As for there being lawsuits, I’m not completely sure that you can sue (and win) because of a situation that you were put in that scared you (as nobody really got hurt).

    I sympathize for those who had to deal with this as I would have been terrified but when it really comes down to it, nobody got hurt, nobody died. I think it’s a shame that AS has this on their plate as it boils down to the mistake of a contracted ramp worker. He was wrong in not reporting what he had done and now AS has to pay the price of it. I think this whole situation has been blow out of proportion considering that the plane landed just fine and all the passengers safely got from point A to B at the end of the day.
    Don’t get me wrong — what happened wasn’t normal and, of course, any sort of aviation incident is newsworthy but it’s also damaging to a reputable company.

    It’s just a shame that AS has to pay the price on this one.

    Alaska Airlines is a great airline. I love working for them and I believe we do offer a great service. I’m sorry if you disagree but, like Ralph and Jeremy, I’m entitled to my opinions. 🙂

  86. if i talk shit about this incident will my companies IP adress be tracked and then labelled as “rude”?

    AA doesnt need to apologise. Accidents happen and the pilots did a damn good job at getting safe on the ground. You should thank them, and you did.

    These employees making nasty posts are probably just pissed off at you giving their company bad publicity

  87. Forgive me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t an Alaska Airlines IP address mean that it was coming from their office buildings. Definitely not at an aiport thats for sure, so it had to be an (ex)employee.

  88. It’s interesting – in the seminal work, The Cluetrain Manifesto, the authors suggest that when ordinary people control the conversation about a company or a brand, and the company itself doesn’t respond directly, but is seen as making surreptitious remarks, it compromises the company’s position. It’s not so much that employees shouldn’t respond, it’s more important that the company itself make a direct response.

    Jeremy, I think your experience on that flight must have been terrifying, regardless of your pilot status. I’m glad you’re OK. And any poster here that says that given your piloting credentials you shouldn’t have been as surprised or concerned about the masks coming down and the airplane plunging to a lower altitude is just damn ignorant. Who wouldn’t be scared of such a situation?

    It’s easy to say stuff like from the comfort of your chair on the other side of the computer screen, but you lived through something horrifying. I’m sorry it happened, but I am glad you posted about it – I hope it’s helped you.

    Finally, to the commenter who admits to be an Alaska Airlines employee, it is *NOT* unusual for bloggers to review the IP addresses of commenters to see where they’re coming from. This helps us determine if we should ban certain IP addresses as being the source of spam, or if we should just tolerate their abuse of our bandwidth because although one particular comment may be off-color and not worthy of us keeping around, we’re mostly liberal-minded enough not to stifle their speech completely.

  89. That’s absolutely amazing. And it completely figures that companies and their devoted cronies would do something like this just to sour your story and try to lash out at anything that might possibly foster a lack of faith in their business.

    As for the poster who acknowledged working to Alaska: stop trying to make it look like you’re taking the high road after getting caught with your hands in the jar-you’re trying now to come off as though you were just expressing your opinion and OH JUST SO HAPPEN to work for the airline in question. Please. Of course the statement isn’t indicative of the company, but please don’t try and pretend everyone is ignorant enough to believe that your opinion isn’t tainted by your loyalty to your employer. Whether you meant to make a statement about your company or not, you did, and I highly doubt that if you flew Southwest and had a similar experience, you’d be nearly as kind.

    It’s not odd at all for bloggers to check the IPs of the people who comment-I do it all the time, and it’s so easy that anyone with any skill could do it and most bloggers do it often.

  90. Martin, you are putting up a smoke screen for Jeremy’s and your own comments regarding this incident. Ramp incidents are very common and happen every day to all operators. I myself suffered several of them in my career. One incident in Kuala Lumpur where a loader punctured the fuselage skin, delayed us for several hours and had to be patched up before we could take off. Fact is that Jeremy made a big drama out of this incident and embellished it with totally wrong information that judging by the response, certainly impressed the uninformed. He further backs up his scenario with not so subtle hints that he is a pilot. Which he may well be but he has no idea about a pressurized jet airliner, least of all it seems, the MD80. Apart from the ignorance of the type of fuel used but claimed to recognise by smell, he obviously has no idea where the forward baggage hold is situated on the MD80 and it’s relation to fuel tanks or engines. However, I’m afraid you Martin and a whole heap of respondents, have taken his words as gospel. As I stated before, the unexpected situation was well handled in a professional manner by a well trained Alaskan crew and I would have no hesitation to fly with them or entrust my family to fly with them anytime. Just for the record, I have no connection whatsoever to Alaskan Airlines. Cheers, Adam.

  91. and.. as a side comment.. the really bad spelling by presumably alaska airlines folks… does not really help to instill confidence in the operation of airline itself…

  92. Whomever it was telling you that it is wrong to edit your blog is insane. Every form of media edits its content. TV News doesn’t just have live cameras rolling 24/7 while they read angry viewer mail. These comments are ignorant, which would explain the butchering of the language, and the fact that they don’t know what spell check is.

  93. Ramp incidents are very common and happen every day to all operators. I myself suffered several of them in my career. One incident in Kuala Lumpur where a loader punctured the fuselage skin, delayed us for several hours and had to be patched up before we could take off.

    There’s an important difference between that incident and the one Jeremy has documented. I wonder if you can spot it?

  94. HAHA! I for SURE won’t be flying Alaska Airlines now — the accident was a big starter, but their poor PR attack is even worse. What simple minded marketing exec thought they could snake by with spinster blog comments, and NOT be had? Good luck with that Alaska, I hope you hire professionals in the future.

  95. …and about editing; I’ll agree that no other news source would even debate leaving comments and quotes raw. However, that’s what I love about the internet, and that’s what gives me faith in this new medium — good or bad, I say leave them up. It’s a clear history of lies, half-truthes, and honesty that will help me form my own opinions; and give me trust in your words. Thanks for the blog posts, Jeremy.

  96. No More Alaska Airlines Reply to No

    Thanks to these comments I’m going to make it my 2006 goal to tell everyone I come in contact with:

    DO NOT fly Alaska Airlines.

    And point them to this blog as an example of why they should not.

    Thank you Alaska Air employees!

  97. Twice Hermanns deleted the entire post.

    Are you sure it was intentional? You sound pretty sure.

  98. Say, let’s test Patrick’s hypothesis. Here’s a link to his “somewhat lengthy” analysis of the situation on his own site. If Patrick is indeed being censored, this comment will be deleted.

  99. Coming on here and personally attacking the individual who was just relating his experience is just dumb. Attacking said person with the writing skills of a dyslexic 6 year old is even dumber. Judging by the syntax and spelling of the posters I think I see why the Alaskan employee did not report gashing a big chunk out of the plane. Alaska employees are obviously semi retarded.

  100. Kudos to you for your praise of the flight crew. That’s who you want to be at their best when things get ugly and it sounds like you had a fine bunch. Glad you made it safely back.

  101. (i’m the one that posted the comment saying i work for alaska) i don’t see how i “attacked” jeremy or anyone else. i was just conveying that this event is unfortunate for my company due to the fact that it was caused by someone who doesn’t even work for alaska airlines. apparently everyone is still all riled up about everything and they want to believe the worst in everybody. what i said was nowhere near offensive (especially considering all the other posts on here). again, ralph obviously doesn’t work in the PR department (and probably not even at corporate). his opinion obviously isn’t an official statement from the company. i still fail to see what grounds anyone has to sue on.

    to phoenix: am i not entitled to have an opinion since i work for the company? the story is of geniune interest to me and i’m responding from home. alaska airlines isn’t going to tank. my job will be there tomorrow regardless of if this website bashes my company.

  102. I live near SeaTac.

    I’ll go find this “Ralph” and spit on him for you.

  103. I am not going to take the time to read all of those comments. I simply don’t have enough time.

    I just wanted to say I read your original post and thought it kewl that the web allows such things to happen.

    I would rather read your account of things than get the 6 o’clock news version. For one thing, the six o’clock news would edit out anything but the sensational parts. I would rather read your account even if you may be wrong about certain odors and/or details. Your blog entry certainly conveys more emotion about the experience than any report of it I have read.

    As far as editing comment and/or blocking them, I agree. I certainly block spamers and foul language from my comments. If someone does not like what you have to say or how you let others use your webspace, let them go start one themself.

  104. nat eccs Reply to nat

    Perhaps if the Alaska airlines employees were paying attention to doing their jobs instead of posting on peoples blogs shit like this wouldn’t happen!

    I think employees at alaska airlines need their internet access revoked!

    Nice pwnage Jeremy!!!

  105. Well, that settles it. I’m never flying Alaska Airlines again…

  106. Anon, you’re more than welcome to have your own opinion. But when you come along masquerading your opinion as fact and deriding someone else’s experience on their own blog, one you’ve never been seen at before, and it just happens that you work for the organization that the blogger is referring to (and doesn’t even take offense with-which is why all this nonsense from Alaska is amazingly ridiculous) makes you more than suspicious, and if you can’t see that now and didn’t know it before you posted, you’re truly naive. If you’re really just exercising your own personal opinion completely isolated from your professional work, then congratulations to you, but you’re incredibly short sighted to think that who you are and where you comment from don’t carry over to what you say. You should know better, and you probably do, and did before you started talking this way in this man’s comments. No one cares if Alaska Airlines will survive this nonsense, of course they will-what’s apalling is the behavior of you and the other detractors. This isn’t about your opinion, this is about trying to devalue his. Here’s a tip if you feel you’re so obligated to your “opinion:” start your own blog and post your opinions there.

  107. Have you considered emailing the server admin from Alaska’s IP whois? That Dean guy. You could talk to him about what’s going on.

  108. This is completely the fault of the airline. They replaced the ramp staff earlier this year and since then, have increased the amount of ramp incidents over the previous two years in only 9 months. According to an investigation by KING TV in Seattle, http://www.king5.com/business/stories/NW_122905WABalaskaairEL.2681f268.html the number of incidents hit 72 in the first 9 months compared to 17 in 2003 and 15 in 2004. The carrier replaced experienced ramp crew with lesser trained, lesser experienced people and this is a consequence of that action.

  109. I’m not saying that Alaska Airlines doesn’t bear the RESPONSIBILITY for what happened on this flight. Like every company, they bear responsibility for the acts of their employees. But bearing the responsibility doesn’t mean it’s their fault.

    I can also understand why Jeremy was upset. Sometimes being a pilot ISN’T a good thing when flying on an airliner. You tend to identify with the pilots and notice when things don’t seem to be going that well. Emergency decompression is certainly something I don’t want to go through, because it indicates that something is seriously wrong.

    However… my one objection (if you could call it that) to Jeremy’s post was that he implied that the sole reason this happened was because Alaska got rid of its union baggage handlers and the unskilled hacks (like, how skilled do you have to be to load and unload baggage?) who caused the problem were a direct and foreseeable consequence of Alaska’s actions.

    Folks, do you know how badly the airline industry is suffering? It’s cheaper today, in dollars (not just real dollars), to fly than it ever has been, yet salaries and expenses are higher than ever. I can’t blame Alaska for wanting to cut costs, and I’d far rather they cut costs with the baggage handlers than with pilots or maintenance.

    Stuff happens. But there is at least one benefit to having non-unionized baggage handlers: it will be easier to fire the dumb*ss who damaged the plane.

  110. Jeremy, Glad everything turned out okay. Ralph,please post a legit email address so we can all respond to you, asshole. Even better, post a picture of yourself along with your email address. Humor us all, expecially the females.Real men have balls

  111. Frequent Flier Reply to Frequent

    What’s funny to me is the fact that the rude comments from the jackasses who don’t like this blog actually gave this story extra legs – now it is in USA Today and other media outlets following up on the story. The naysayers unintentionally help spread the message of Jeremy’s (excellent) blog. Nice work!

  112. Hey, Anon, after reading Jeremy’s story, I have decided to not fly using Alaska Airlines’ services, nor would I recommend them to family, friends, and acquaintances. You see, I also am entitled to my opinion.

  113. You know, I read anon’s (the Alaska Airlines employee) post, and I didn’t see what was offensive at all about it.

    I can understand why Jeremy was upset. I can also understand why Alaska Airlines employees would be upset. Jerry’s original post implied that the incident was a direct result of Alaska’s policies (of using non-union baggage handlers), and that Alaska was a company that didn’t care about its customers (by overbooking flights so he and his girlfriend couldn’t sit next to each other). Those implications are offensive, and as far as I can tell completely without merit.

    Yes, Jeremy is entitled to his opinions, but aren’t Alaska employees entitled to THEIR opinions? I love the self-proclaimed advocates of free speech who want to go spit on the Alaska employees,or get them fired. “Free speech for me but not for thee!” You should be ashamed of yourselves.

    As bloggers we have an obligation to blog responsibly. I understand the appeal of Jeremy’s original post, but the freshness of the event and the emotional reaction from being in a situation that was very frightening and outside of one’s control can sometimes lead people to say, or write, things that upon reflection they should not have. Like overselling flights being a sign of a company’s lack of consideration… do you know that the airlines have decades of data showing how many people invariably miss their flights, and why should the seat go unsold? One of my sisters travels extensively as part of her job, and loves this practice as she will volunteer to get bumped whenever possible for the free round-trip tickets. And, I’ve flown with my wife a few times where we were separated because the flight was fully booked, and we have NEVER had a problem getting seated together by swapping with another, single passenger. You just have to ask the people around you.

    As for me, I’ll fly Alaska in the future if they’re going where I want to for the price I want to pay.

  114. “All I’m getting at is that people make such a big deal over the fact that this “came from Alaska Airlines, omg.” This statement did not come from Alaska. Ralph was not “representing” my company.”

    Well, legally he was, that’s the problem. Look up some case law concerning Respondiate Superior. If he was using company resources, he is acting in behalf of the company whether they like it or not. As to being able to sue over the initial incident, you bet they can, the courts over and over have shown that emotional trauma and post traumatic stress are damages, and since air carrier ops are a ‘strict liability’ business in the US (along with explosives handling and dangerous animals) no negligence needs to be proven, although as the situation origionated, no punative damages would have been available. However, since the heckling posts were written from one of AS’s machines, now you add attitude to the equation. Attitude is what an attorney will take in court and show Bad Faith on the part of the company, not on the origional incident, but adding to the stress and trauma afterwards. Remember, an employer is responsable for the acts of an employee while they are on duty or on premesis. These acts of Bad Faith DO open the door for punative damages which can add several zeros to the settlement figures.

    I’d think the CEO of AS owes a personal appology to Jeremy for these bad acts happening on his watch, and should probably post one here as well in hopes of mitigating this exposure if/when it comes in front of a jury. They like it when CEOs own up and appologize. Sending the lawyers and PR personelle doesn’t cut it quite the same. The CEO is the master and holds the responsability for all this in his hands. In this area is one where American business should take a clue from the Japanese model. Top man ownes up and makes the public apology, Top Man/Woman, not some lacky, it has to come from the head.

  115. RE to: You come up with some very imaginative terms to describe the smell and what was happening. Can you explain to me, since when did jet liners start using AV gas? What was burning?

    Hilarious. I note that the person who posted that either carefully edited out the JP4 part (Originally AV gas/JP4) or didn’t actually read the post before making a comment. Talk about sticking both feet and legs in ones mouth for the whole world to see.

  116. Doyle, interesting comment. As Civil jet aircraft neither use Avgas or JP4, I’m intruiged as to where you have stuck your feet or your head?
    Apart from all that, this is a complete thread hijack, far removed from the original over dramatization report of Jeremy’s ” traumatic” experience.

  117. I’ll never fly Al. Air again. Thanks for letting us all see that they don’t care about the passenger.

  118. Jim Dolan Reply to Jim

    Since you choose to make snotty footnote remarks about the grammar and spelling of some of your critics, you might want to pay a little more attention to your own. Take, for example, your account of the midair mishap: The possessive form of “its” has no apostrophe, and accommodate is spelled this way. Granted, most people can’t spell worth a damn, but before you criticize them you might fix your own writing.

  119. Hello Herman,

    Here from the Netherlands. Isn’t it so that you are now be spammed and that you can bring them to court.

    Keep posting your experiance. Don’t let the big bird bite you. And also a good thing you gave the cabinestaff compliments.

    Enjoy life, never take a plane. Swim !

  120. and its not about the grammar, to the other unshaved pussy. Its about the message that has been presented in this blog.

  121. New meaning for the term “ralphed”… as in “Hey, somebody just Ralphed on my blog!”

    Serious network technical query: If an air traveler (customer) was sitting in one of the Alaska Airlines Board Room travel lounges with their notebook computer connected to the lounge’s Wi-Fi or local network, might their IP address (e.g., when commenting on somebody’s blog) *look* like it belongs to the airline’s sub-network or whatever network the lounge’s LAN hooks up to? I would presume that the IP group might vary from lounge to lounge depending on the specific lounge hardware configuration.

    Anybody here expert enough to answer that question?

    — Jack Krupansky

  122. I read the Alaska employees still fighting on here — your opinion holds little weight when it is anonymous. We have no way to validate your thoughts, your personal experiences, or your rank in that company — so you have to understand most of the skepticism here.

    In short, if your opinion and perspective is both valid and strong, then post who you are. There’s no value but spin otherwise, and many others here have listed who they are despite the, well, spite. In writing, that’s inherent to standing up for what you believe.

  123. To Jack: I’ve setup many servers for corporations (mac and linux, but IP is all the same) — it depends on how they setup their network in that location. I would be inclined to say no, IP’s are precious, and creating a subnet per travel lounge, nationwide, under the alaskan air DNS would seem to be an expensive price to pay. I would assume that the location, airport or the like, would house their own, and Alaska would pay a fee for it, running on a dynamic address… but that’s speculation, I could very well be wrong — from an IT standpoint, it would see to be a waste to me.

  124. I just got off alaska flight 903 from LA to Seattle. Baggage was a total disaster. They lost 1 bag, and I saw at least 30 people in the line for lost luggage. Tons of misplaced bags piled everywhere. We finally left after 2 hours looking for our bag. Alaska seems to have gone from an airline our family would use preferentially, to one we will try to avoid. Sad.

  125. Thanks for reporting about this on your blog, Jeremy. I thought I’d provide a few comments not related to some of the above attacks on your character.
    I was recently aboard an Alaska Airlines flight that was delayed after a baggage handler damaged the plane with a vehicle. We had to deplane and board another aircraft which, of course, took ages. It just makes one wonder how often careless, preventable (yet potentially dangerous) mistakes take place throughout the airline industry.
    Also, one could assert that this event provides an example of how terrorism affects us in daily life; it (among other things) has effected an environment within the industry requiring financially struggling companies to cut corners to win back customers. Those cut corners (manifesting in undertrained and underpaid employess) inevitably lead to costly (and potentially deadly?) mistakes.
    That is not to say that we as consumers should expect perfect service; we should demand, however, that those charged with our safety not compound their errors into a dangerous situation by not taking responsibility for their actions.

  126. noflyAlaskanomore Reply to noflyAlaskanomore

    Peter says it well. Alaska was a preferred choice for my flights. On a flight this past year from Chicago to Seattle, when I finally did get my luggage, it included a note telling that it had been inspected not in my presence. It did not mention that the new clothes within had been taken. So much for that shopping trip. Alaska’s response to my complaint of missing items was basically “we are busy, too bad, so sad”. Now it seems the attitude is be cheap, slam bang, go for the cheap labor and lip service to shoddy practices.

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  129. Just a thought – Alaska has free internet service in their board rooms – could be bored travelers like me waiting on one of their frequent delays? Lots to bitch about with Alaska these days, but – as another reader points out – they’re not exactly alone in the industry.

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